Friday, July 9, 2010

Trey Songz: Cutie-Pie Perv or just honest?

MTV Unplugged with Trey Songz looks pretty cute, Trey has a sweet face. I was expecting music that was equally sweet and, well, let's just say I was caught off my guard: that adorable little son-of-a-gun knows a thing or two about yep, mmmhmmm.

Isn't it funny how they have no shame in Contemporary RnB? And how they equate romance with sexual "performance"? The tracks start off with cheezy synths and chimes and cooing vocables and the next thing you know you gotta skip to the next track because someone walks in the room or you start blushing or you just feel flat out uncomfortable . . . whichever comes first ;) Contemporary RnB always makes me feel like I'm eavesdropping, like I'm some voyeur peeping at a couple on their honeymoon, like I snuck in when the happy two weren't looking and made myself nice and comfy under the marriage bed.

Okay, cheesiness and explicit content aside . . . it did occur to me that perhaps I'm being just a little too hard on Trey Songz and the whole genre and that society is perhaps too hard on men in general when it comes to sexuality. I've personally never been one to stereotype men as sex-crazed beasts, but the stereotype does exist and it comes up in conversation between women all the time when they discuss relationship woes. The thing that women never like to admit, though, is that they *expect* guys to initiate and want them that way.

I don't think there's a women alive who isn't disappointed if a guy doesn't make a move of some kind on a first date, definitely by the second. And this is true even for "wait until marriage" types like myself. If I went out with someone and they didn't do something I wouldn't be sure if they liked me as more than friends; I'd want to sense, almost from day one, that they wanted to sleep with me :) And it really wouldn't be cool to me if a guy was too shy to touch me, kiss me, etc. And I would much, much prefer it if he initiated. Don't get me wrong . . . if I thought a guy was the right one and he was super shy, I would never let that get in the way of my dating him . . . I'm just speaking of what is ideal in my imagination. And, interestingly, I think the more reserved a girl is, the more she expects a guy to get the ball rolling . . . and she is exactly the kind of girl who is also the most prudish and critical of men being too "sexual." I know of straight-laced women like this. They complain of "morals these days" but I'm quite sure that if their significant other didn't get the job done nothing would happen in the birds and bees department.

So . . . that's a lot to expect from guys, I think. I have three younger brothers and I feel compassion for guys since I spend so much time with my bros and inevitably talk about girls and relationship stuff with them. It's nice to be the girl in certain respects, to be on the receiving end of everything. Not that girls can't take matters into their own hands, but, you know, traditionally speaking it's the other way around.

And now back to Trey Songz. Maybe when he sings his long list of things he's going to do to this or that girl, he's really just targeting exactly what women expect or want from guys whether they like to admit it or not . . .

19 comments:

Unknown said...

First of all -

I opened Google Chrome after about a good few months of complete disuse and found this blog on my bookmarks bar. Imagine my surprise. I have no idea how it got here or who you are, and rest assured that I'm just as confused and mildly terrified as you are.

Second of all-
I appreciate your comments of the 'men's sexuality' issue from the female perspective. I'm always bemoaning the oversexualization of women by men, but guys like me get trained by women to be desexualized primarily because we don't set expectations to a certain degree

I don't know if that makes any sense. I'm almost late for class, so I'm probably not giving this the attention I probably should. I guess what I'm saying is that I agree.

Also, ironically enough, on opening your blog, Akon was playing. Who is this Trey Songz character, though?

Kristin said...

Joe,
That is fascinating that I'm somehow bookmarked. I wish I could get "somehow bookmarked" on even more people's browsers because it's such a treat to get comments on my blog:)

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond. I'm interested in what you said about getting "trained" by women . . . what exactly did you mean?

Gender! Everyone's favorite topic :)

Just kidding.

Anyway, hope you have a great weekend.

Unknown said...

Before I start, I think I should bring up that I usually try not to start conversations with women with by discussing my general inadequacy... I do have better pick up lines ('Do you like fishsticks?')

The gist of what I'm saying, though, is that I try not to look at women as purely sexual objects - that's not what the mindset that I have when I meet someone, you know, 'okay it's time to get laid.' But, because of that (I've been told I'm 'too nice'), whenever I meet a woman, they seem to immediately desexualize me, you know, they say 'Well, we're never going to have sex.' So, that happens again and again until you (or, in this case, I) get to the point where, subconsciously, I have to question what I'm doing, or if I'm supposed to just be asexual. But since nobody's asexual (that sort of thing tends to be bad for a species), I'm just rejecting a part of my nature because that's the only (for the sake simplicity) reaction I've gotten to it from other people. My options seem to be changing who I am or being someone I'm not, neither of which seem good for the soul. I'm trying not to make it sound too depressing: sometimes it is, but sometimes the perspective changes.

As far as Mr. Songz goes, I still haven't heard the song, but based on your description of it, but we could talk about another highly sexual song - Every Girl by Young Money, which is mostly a satire of the American dream in the vein of, say, Portnoy's Complaint.

I have to say I'm tempted to blog-stalk you, just because anyone with tags for Dostoevsky and Eminem must be keeping the best blog I've ever seen.

Kristin said...

Joe,

Thanks again for your response . . . as for the quality of this blog, well, I try! I vacillate between feeling like I "over-think" life, and feeling like I don't think about it enough. This blog is the product of what happens when I try to think things through a bit. Hopefully there's something of interest here to others!

Your experiences with women are very interesting. I think you are exactly right to not see women as sex objects; any woman who would say that you are "too nice" as a result and "desexualize" you sounds like bad news. Be thankful that things didn't work out :) I've seen nothing but bad come from relationships that are founded primarily on physical attraction.

Our culture portrays the 20s and even the teens as years when we should be going in and out of relationships and getting our gander on with who knows how many people. Sex and relationships are portrayed as some kind of recreation that we should do when we reach a certain age. I think that makes a lot of people feel inadequate, confused and frustrated . . . because love doesn't work that way. Love doesn't happen on a timetable. You don't reach a certain age and boom the right person waltzes into your life. Finding a soul mate, someone who understands and appreciates you from a variety of angles--emotional, spiritual, intellectual, and physical--is the quest of a lifetime. I don't care how awesome, good-looking, rich, etc. you may be . . . it isn't easy for anyone to find a good, lasting relationship. So unless you are okay with transient, superficial relationships, you likely won't be getting it one with lots of people. Don't forget this nice piece of advice I picked up from a teen-girl self-help book (lol) . . . you only need to make it work with one person. Really. One person. You don't have to be attractive to every woman. Those women who want to "desexualize" you . . . let them. And don't take it as some kind of rejection from all women-kind; it is a rejection from just those girls, and you don't have to make it work with them. There's nothing wrong with you.

I listened to the Young Money song, thanks for suggesting. I heard that as a pop song with the explicit treatment so characteristic of hip-hop. It seems to me like hip-hoppers take pride in being explicit, which I respect. It's a kind of honesty, a not-beating-about-the bush kind of attitude. So in this song, I think the rappers relished in being as explicit as possible. I can't say it was very pleasant to listen to :) But I don't feel like it was any more misogynistic than a '70s hard rock song where all the explicitness is *implied.* It is what it is. Now what did you say about it being some kind of commentary on the American Dream?

Kristin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

So, I had written a long, eloquent response that didn't get posted. I would re-write it, except that it required me to listen to Every Girl more times than I ever care to hear it. So, here's what I remember, but keep in mind that I've been up since about 8 AM and have been doing a little (very little) drinking:

There's definitely a culture of misogyny around young people. I'm 23, but because I just transferred to this school, they put me in a freshman dorm, so I'm looking at it from the outside in a way and people say things... you know, this is a good school, and there are a lot of smart people here, but they're just as misogynistic, if not more so, than the community college I transferred out of. What's sad is that it seems forced, and there doesn't seem to be a 'ringleader' behind it, so to speak. People are just falling into their 'natural' cultural scripts (I might write a blog entry on this... could be interesting) because they've learned to see it as apart of their success. I assume there's similar pressure for women. And that's all it is, but the power of these cultural scripts is strong. I had decided not to go out tonight, to dedicate the night to writing. Still, two hours ago, I found myself at a frat party, and they weren't going to let me in, and I considered (very briefly, trust me) bribing or fighting my way in. Of course, I'm not going to pay money (even $1 that I pass off as $10) to drink crummy beer and I'm definitely not going to break a rich kid's jaw in front of a cop, so I, as a reasonable adult, walked away. That said, though, I can see how it gets the best of people. The moral of the story is that I'll be getting my own place next semester. That's what we were talking about, right?

I wrote something like that in the old comment, and I know it was relevant to something you'd said, but I don't know what it was exactly. It's probably safe to ignore everything up to this point.

Anyway, as for Every Girl, it's definitely explicit, but American culture is explicit. The difference is that American culture likes to hide how explicit it is (Ooh, another contradiction). There's that constant contradiction between the kind of Christian America and the element of, almost hidden, hedonism in every aspect of American culture. We want the most money, we want the most power, we want to be fulfilled in every way and we don't want to have to sacrifice for it. This is where most of our great art comes from (not that Every Girl is great art, it's just interesting how our art is different from Europe's. Ask a European what they think of our art - they don't get it at all).

Anyway, I had wanted to comment on that Poe entry, too, but I'm probably just going to go to bed. Expect that soon. I like your use of the word 'vacillate.' You don't hear it enough.

Kristin said...

Joe,
Once again, wow! Not that I expect you to continue writing all these great responses, but I must say I wish my blog had gotten "somehow bookmarked" sooner. I'm sorry by the way that your original post didn't get published. I read it, actually, because everything posted on my blog gets emailed to me. But I'm sorry that, from your perspective, you lost it and had to retype. Something fishy is going on because I had problems posting mine too. I guess the lesson is to always copy before you click "submit!"

Anyway . . . please, please expand on the braggadocio/self-dobut combo you perceive in American culture. I'm also interested in your ideas vis-a-vis hedonism in American culture, as well as your thoughts on the differences between US and European art. It isn't often that someone brings up something where its like, "Whoa, I never thought of that before!" Thanks for opening my mind.

I think it's highly unlikely that Weezy thought things through to the degree of your analysis, but that doesn't mean your analysis wasn't spot on. To a certain extent, we are all products of the societies we live in and so Weezy may be channeling all of that without knowing it.

I'm sorry about your experiences in the dorm. Even though I'm a little older than you, (25), I can relate to not wanting to be around a pack of Freshman. I'm also sorry that people are slipping into their "cultural scripts" as you describe them. Where do you go to school? Interestingly, I never saw that part of college, the whole partying thing. I did live in a dorm Freshman year, but I was surrounded by lots of nice, nerdy kids like myself :) I went to UC Berkeley where there are lots of, well, nerds. We were always studying and I was the worst of them all that way. I sometimes wish I had lightened up a bit, but, that's just not my nature. I used to go home on the weekends actually, just to enjoy being in my own bedroom and seeing my dog. I think it's stressful for kids to be away from family and their support system, to be thrown into worlds of alcohol and partying and such at such young ages. Even though I don't exactly have an idyllic family life, it still was better to be at home than to be up at a dorm where I felt kind of isolated. Anyway, keep your chin up!

Well, the most important thing in life is to enjoy it. So if you have fun at the frat parties, go for it. But, if you're having second guesses, I would stay in and write. You are a very, very intelligent and thoughtful person. Not everyone goes that "deep." You're an intellectual. That's a rare talent. Put it to good use! It's one thing for someone with a lesser mind to waste the night over beers and bad women. But when you're smart and you can think at the level you do . . . run with it. Run far, young sprout!

This whole cultural script thing is definitely real. I think the only thing that can keep a person from falling prey to it is passion. When you love something outside of yourself--guitar in my case, writing in yours--that can motivate you to rise above the mediocrity that too many people settle for. A lot of people around me tease me for not dating, for spending so many hours working at the guitar and the voice. Those criticisms come from some of the people closest to me, and it hurts because I don't feel like they appreciate the things I most like about myself, which would be my discipline and passion for the arts. Oh well. It hurts, but I love what I do so much that I'm going to keep doing my own thing. The sooner you can find your passion, your purpose in life, the better. I fell into cultural scripts before I found the guitar. I'm still far from perfect, but I feel like the guitar has given me something pure to live for, it's like I can't turn my back on it. Until you feel that way about something, you're just going to go with the flow . . .

Unknown said...

'Hey, Joe, if you can spare a few minutes, would you mind expanding on 3 terribly complicated ideas that would best be discussed through a series of human conversations in the space of a blog post reply? I'll use words like "vis-a-vis" to entice you into not just giving up forever.'

I'm kidding. Let me try to break it down into a sizable bite, though, because dissertations aren't fun for anyone to read. Also, I'm fairly sure it's spelled 'viz-a-viz.' With Ss, it might be some sort of horse-drawn carriage.

On American culture, well, America likes to see herself a nation that's pulled herself up by her bootstraps and deserves all that she has. It would be silly, of course, to imagine that America doesn't have a lot, and that generally Americans don't have a lot. But because we got most of what we have through slavery and the exploitation of workers and minorities, that's a part of our national psyche, we feel this guilt (white liberal guilt, if you will).

As an aside, one of my roommates is a Saudi guy, and he was shocked at the way that Americans treated minorities even fifty years because he had never heard of such a thing in Saudi Arabia. Also, he was asking for help understanding a book, and I explained to him that a lot of the book deals with disillusionment because in the 1920s, the rich were incredibly rich and wasting their money while the poor was poorer than ever, and intelligent, successful artists knew about this disconnect and dealt with it in their work.

So, yes, we get what we get with difficulty, and some less-pleasant things and this is part of what sets us apart and gives us a cultural identity. The braggadocio/self-doubt is, you know: I have a lot, but do I deserve it? Which becomes, how did I get it? Could I get it again? What am I even doing here?

If that makes sense.

Hedonism in American culture is something that's already been pretty well covered, just maybe not in those terms. I'm using the word 'hedonism' here loosely, obviously we don't have 300mn people orgies (that wouldn't even be fun... it would be terrible) but it's the same basic idea: we like to see people at their worst, we like pleasure, we want everything, we don't like consequences. We don't want to hear rational discussions on Obama's economic policies - He's an elite Muslim Kenyan! John McCain has been in politics for decades, let's see what he has to... Oh my God, Sarah Palin thinks she can see Russia from her house! More than that, movies that do the best are the ones with the most explosions and pretty colors, there's the 'noise war' in music that I'm sure you know about. Again, we want everything and we want it big. This isn't necessarily a strictly American problem, but the world seems to blame us for it. It’s hard to explain precisely.

US versus European art is too big of a subject to really tackle immediately. I also should have said literature, since I don’t know too much about most of the other arts. But, I’ve always said that there’s this refusal in Europe to really embrace American art because they (England and France especially) like to hold their artists to this very high esteem, but we’re a lot more pragmatic and tend to see artists as almost a necessary evil who have to provide something else to society, as well. They expect us to represent the same basic ideals because we come from them, but we’ve formed our own identity, and it seems like there’s a real reluctance to embrace that.

Unknown said...

You do me too much honor. I’m no intellectual. I’m not a poet, or even really a ‘writer.’ Like Jack Kerouac says - ‘I’m just a human being with a lot of shit on my mind.’

I’m up at the University of Richmond. So... opposite sides of the country. I have thought about trying to go to California for grad school, but I try not to think that far ahead. I don’t even know when I’m going to eat dinner.

You definitely have to find something you can hold onto. What kind of music do you play? I play a little folk (okay, a few John Prine songs). If you’re dedicated to what you do, passionate about it, serious about it, then a lot of people aren’t going to understand. A lot of people aren’t dedicated to, passionate, or serious about anything. That’s one way to live, and it’s not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with it - dedication takes a lot of time and energy.

This is getting long. I should dip. You know, though, I don’t want to move too fast, but I have a feeling that we might end up as friends one day.

(Would you believe it got too long to post and I still wasn't done?)

Kristin said...

Joe, all of that is so interesting. One thing's for sure, you're definitely an intellectual :) But I can tell you're not the "armchair intellectual" type, that's good. Actually, I'm not sure there's anything wrong with AIs, but they're a little boring because they're always . . . in their armchair, lol.

I feel what you're saying about the price America has paid for her success. We definitely have some (many) dark stories in our past. Trust me, as a Berkeley alum, (Berkeley being about as left-wing as you get), I've spent quite a lot of time studying the various injustices that have occurred on these soils, to the point where I was not proud at all to be an American. Now, I see things a bit differently. I still see America as a land with a past, but I think every nation "has a past." What makes American redeeming though, is that, more than any other country, (or at least as well as the best of them), there is more opportunity here, for education and for a better life (minus health care, we don't have that one figured out!!). And I don't just think those benefits exist because we're profiteering our way to success and plenty. Profiteering happens, most definitely. But good things are available in America in part because there are good things in the culture, "american values," if you will.

For example. My mom had a conversation with someone in Belgium when we were traveling there a few years back. He commented on how, in Europe, he felt people were much more conservative: they tended to believe that you were born with what you born with and that there was no point in trying to move out of your class . . . things are the way they are. I have a Latvian friend who has not put it that way exactly, but he is depressed in Latvia because he doesn't feel like there's anything going on. He dreams of living in New York City, and being a musician, not in Latvia, but in America. Maybe he feels that way just because Latvia is such a tiny country, but my gut sense is that he and the Belgian guy are both getting at the same thing: things are more fixed in Europe.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the travel writer Rick Steves, but he wrote about that, too. In a positive way. He feels like Europeans are more community centered and less individualistic. They tend to be more content to grow up and work for the family business. They aren't trying to "make their mark," in the same way that Americans are. That is a beautiful thing, too, but it is more "fixed."

(Part 2 below) got too long again!

Kristin said...

In contrast, in America, I think we are more likely to ask, "What do I want to be when I grow up?" . . . That is an essential question. Everyone that I know personally in my age bracket is interested in answering that question. It isn't enough for us to earn a days wages and get through life. We fantasize about finding our passion, getting educated, overall doing something with ourselves. I think that's a very American thing. To dream. The whole "American Dream" thing, I think it's real. It's something in the culture that motivates people to get educated and take risks.

I live in Mountain View, which is a city in Silicon Valley. Not sure if you've heard the expression, "Silicon Valley," but it refers to a region here in the South Bay, where various high tech companies are headquartered. Google is headquartered here in Mountain View, for example. Steven Jobs of Apple Computers went to Homestead High, just down the street from where I live. My dad has met and done business with Steve Jobs. It's sort of in the culture here; it's assumed that, if you have education, imagination, and a good-work ethic, you can change the world. And the Junior colleges in my area are amazing; even kids who goof off in high school get a second chance. It feels like second chances are all over the place, actually. For example, my Dad's friend, Chris MacAskill founded Smugmug, a great online photo sharing service. He lives like four blocks away. Chris founded the company about ten years ago; it was a personal dream of his, and a second career, and he did it. Chris is a classic American-Dream kind of guy. He was a homeless as a kid, but he did well in school, . . . the rest is history. And that's just the South Bay. Six hours south of here, you've got Hollywood and the entertainment industry. There are Steve Jobs, Chris MacAskill stories all over the place.

Now, you could get cynical about it all and say that the infrastructure and institutions we have here, the things that made it possible for Jobs and MacAskill to get an education, etc. are the result of America exploiting one group of people or another, or our reliance on foreign oil, or whatever. I guess it all depends on how much you "zoom out" and take our entire society and all of its workings into account, and the extent to which you believe everything is interconnected. From my perspective, I tend to see more individuals. I tend to see the individual choices people make to get educated and get what they want out of life. I see the families in my community who say to their kids, "study first" and hire me as a piano teacher to make sure their kids get a good education. I see my mom who always asked me, "What do you want to become?" I see my Dad, who grew up on a farm in Utah, and successfully moved his family out to CA to make a name for himself in the high tech industry. I see my friend who's going on to med school, my neighbor who went to law school before deciding to have a kids and a be a mom. People tend to get educated and try their hand at something . . . and they sometimes bust an artery in the process. There are lots of work-a-holics in my area, it's been a rather stressful place to grow up. Nothing's perfect. That's the downside. But the upside is that we don't sit on our buns, and there's a dynamic feeling here that you don't find everywhere.

I felt that same feeling in Detroit a few weeks back (I went to the Jay-Z, Eminem concert at Comerica Park!) . . . Henry Ford, Thomas Edison . . . Barry Gordy of Motown Records . . . there really are a lot of great American stories.

What do you think?

(Part 3 below, if you still want to read!)

Kristin said...

I apologize for making this so very long. I guess I ended up riffing on this topic because I sensed a pessimistic tone in your entry; I relate to that, I really do . . . there is plenty about America to be pessimistic about. Just lately, though, I've come to think there are some really great things about America that I've taken for granted. So this blog entry was me working that out for myself. Thanks for bringing up the topic of America; not sure I ever would have fleshed this out otherwise.

I guess the best way to look at it is to embrace it all, the good and the bad. And then do what we can to celebrate the good and remedy the bad?

By the way, I want you to expand on the differences between European and American art at some point!

Unknown said...

3 AM? You should probably get some sleep... unless that's my time, in which case you should probably tell Google where you live (they've figured it out by now... thanks Silicon Valley).

You know UR is one of the best schools in the country for international education, and I've met lots of illegal immigrants through my old job (janitor - have I proved your point, yet?), so I know that people see this as a land of opportunity - as cliched as that is, it is true in a lot of ways. Coming up from nothing is the great American pasttime, and one of our biggest cultural contributions to the world (rap music - See 'Sing for the Moment' by Eminem) is founded almost entirely on that concept. At the same time, though, these grand success stories are the exception instead of the rule. And when we hear about them, our search for success is disheartening as a culture. Have you read Junot Diaz's "The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao"? Michael Chabon, Jonathan Franzen, modern American writers are, maybe not pessimistic, but wondering where their share of the prosperity is and if monetary, even this sense of entrepreneurial, success is 'enough.' It's something that I've explored a little bit, but want to do more of (the fiction section is coming up).

You make a lot of points, and I won't get into it point by point because overall I agree that America, probably more than any other country in the world, let's you branch out and 'discover yourself,' in business, technology, and art. You make a lot of points, and I won't get into it point by point because overall I agree. Because of that, though, it's easy to get lost (contradictions, dichotomies, this is what I'm saying).

I completely lost my train of thought. It's been good, though, I got some ideas for some short stories - thanks. I like how we're almost having conversations here, haha. Take it easy.

Kristin said...

Joe,

I'm interested in your story, going from janitorial work to the University of Richmond and the people you met, etc. Isn't that an "American story" right there?

Anyway, I think you're right about the grand success stories being an exception to the rule. That's true. Perhaps, though, having those stories hanging out there motivates people to at least take a crack at it? And, in the process of doing so, the entire culture is lifted a bit as a result of people pushing themselves? That would be the positive spin on it.

The negative spin on it would be that, as a result of pushing themselves and falling short of the "grand success" story, people become bitter and cynical. And they have mid-life crises where they wonder what went wrong . . . or they come from situations where they never felt like they got a shot at it, and they become angry at society for not giving them a fair chance.

I don't know. I guess it all depends on where you come from and what your experiences are, doesn't it? For some people, the American dream is real, for others it's a let down.

Hmmm . . .

(Pt. 2 below!) :)

Kristin said...

Well, something that made an impression on me was going to South Africa a few years ago. There are these things called "townships." They're basically acres and acres of makeshift homes outside of metropolitan centers where poor blacks live. It's a legacy of apartheid. Very sad. Disgusting as this sounds, we actually "toured" one. We visited a community arts center where they encourage you to buy stuff made by the local kids and we met the "medicine man" who provides "health care" to the locals. (I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't think it's a good think for the medicine man to be applauded for telling the people they can cure cancer with monkey hands or the like.) It was definitely awkward how a tourist attraction was made of their poverty, but I'm glad I saw it all the same.

The thing that surprised me was how happy the people seemed. Now, it could be that they were just putting on faces for the tourists, that's likely. But, I don't know, it was just a vibe. They kept their little shacks up quite nicely, there was a sense of community, I almost wondered if they knew they lived in poverty. They must, but, in a way, they seemed fine with it. You'd expect to feel some kind of collective anger, wouldn't you? You'd think that they would *not* be okay with tourists taking pictures of them, that they'd have too much pride. Or maybe they were just smart, knowing that we'd spend our tourists dollars on those art projects.

The same thing happened in Zambia. We visited a village near Victoria Falls (amazing, you must see them some day). A lady who lived in the village gave us a "tour" and described daily village life. Everybody seemed to love living in the village. They were like, "look at how we live, come appreciate our culture." Meanwhile, there was a US-sponsored Anti-Aids campaign going on, with reps holding a public demonstration on the dangers of AIDS. And I'm looking around at all these little kids who are not going to school, not getting an education.

Again, what struck me is that the people seemed to accept their condition. It could be that I didn't speak to the right people, that, as a tourist, I didn't get the full story. But, I must admit that I didn't sense much, if any, discontent. And that puzzled me. We just assume that people will be discontented if they live in huts. We assume they'll be angry if they don't get educational opportunities, health care . . . but what if you come from a tribal society? I mean, have you heard of the Zulu people? They were an African nation in South Africa before the British and Dutch took over. We also toured one of those villages, (it wasn't a living, functioning village . . . it was a historical kind of thing.) But, again, that's they're heritage. For black Africans, their ancestors lived that way. And having that in their not-so-distant past seems to make them more accepting of living in a semi-tribal state today.

(Pt. 3 below, almost done!)

Kristin said...

This has been a very, very long round-about way of saying that . . . the presence of an "American Dream" ethos in our culture makes people discontented in a potentially productive way. At least people are angry in our society if they don't get opportunities, if things don't pan out economically. Anger, if it turns into collective action and change, can be a very good thing. In America, we expect better.

What do you do in a country like South Africa where you have a sizeable population who do not see the need for formal education? Who are content to get medical advice from the medicine man? Who practice a religion which apparently condones having multiple sex-partners? How do you begin lifting a people out of poverty and a public health crisis when they don't think there's a problem?

You could make a case that, in some ways, the "American Dream" never fails us. Either we follow it and we achieve our dreams, or we follow it and we don't . . . but, either way, at least we're striving for something.

Kristin said...

It just occurred to me that Trey Songz may be the most profound man alive. I mean, look at how deep his eponymous post has gotten? :) Trey Songz and contemporary sexuality, Trey Songs and gender roles and stereotypes, Trey Songs and the American ego, Trey Songz and American v. European art, Trey Songz and ethics in America, Trey Songz and the American Dream.

Trey Songz is the man. The word.

Unknown said...

I think we're taking the long way to say that there are positives and negatives to American prosperity in terms of its affect on the American psyche.

You're going to 'feel' as a reaction to culture - how you see yourself within your culture, how you see your culture as perceiving you, this is why women's rights is tricky in Muslim countries. We, in America, say that women should be the heads of their households if they want. In Muslim countries, they say that women shouldn't have to deal with the responsibilities of the household - for a lot of people the idea of legislated women's liberation is 'change for the sake of change,' because women still wouldn't want to have to take on the man's traditional gender roles. This is a very simplified way of explaining it. People, also, men and women, say that women in the west are too objectified and women over there don't want to be objectified the way they see our women as being objectified, and men don't want their daughters, and so on. Again, this isn't the most in-depth analysis, but I hope it gets the point across.

It is a national thing, though. In the west, we have the concept of national identity that they do and don't have in Africa. In America, we know we're Americans, but the west pushed the concept of Zambia onto the amaZulu and these other diverse groups who didn't see themselves as needing this kind of identity. So as far as what do we do about them? We show them what we've got, and if they don't want it they don't have to take it. We give them the option, not only to adopt our way of life nationally, but as individuals to come and take part in what we have -- the American dream.

I disagree that striving without success is the American dream. You can fail anywhere on the planet, and you can not strive anywhere on the planet. The dream is success, work is the means to the end.

As for Trey Songz... I still have no idea who he is, but anything can spark conversation, haha. I think I deserve at least some of the credit for this conversation. You can have a little bit, too.

Kristin said...

Hey, finally getting back to you on this one. Yeah, I don't know what I think about any of this, that's the honest truth :) Specifically, I'm referring to the extent to which we should try to influence other cultures. One part of me says we should not judge and mind our own business. Another part of me says it's pointless what we think anyway; we have no control over what other people do and it's a waste of time and resources to interfere. And another part of me thinks that rights and wrongs do exist and some things should not be tolerated: actually going to Africa made me considerably less open-minded.

As Americans, there isn't much we can do about tribal/village life in Africa. Our dollars should be spent at home for sure. I do think the Aids campaigns are good, though. I told you that I saw the US-backed AIDS campaign in the Zambian village and that was great . . .

But what about governments in Africa? To what extent should they allow the whole tribal arrangement to continue? I don't know, I honestly don't know, you can't force people to change, but then some things don't seem right. I keep seeing all those little black faces in my mind . . . all those kids who may never learn to read beyond the basics if at all, or who might get aids . . . how can you not interfere?

When do you say "that's how they want to live, but out," and when do you say, "that's just wrong."

What to do?!!

One thing's for sure: education is for everyone. While it isn't fair to prescribe religion and social structures, the ability to read and write well are skills that surely everyone should have. If I was in charge of an African government, I would leave the question of lifestyle up to the people, but I would set up mandatory schools. That in itself might be a lifestyle infringement, I know, but people must get educated. If, after getting a good education, people *choose* to live in villages, practice folk medicine, maintain multiple sex partners at the risk of contracting AIDS . . . at least they'd be doing so with their eyes wide open. At that point, you'd have to conclude, "Different strokes for different folks."

Education, education, education.

How can people be good voters if they can't even read? I was in Memphis a month ago at the National Museum of Civil Rights and learned about the work various volunteer teachers from across the US did in Mississippi during the 60s. An astonishing number of poor, black Mississippians didn't know they had the right to vote. Literacy was an issue so they didn't even know how to vote. Teachers set up makeshift schools to help people learn how to read and also makeshift tent hospitals were set up. The state was in shambles, infrastructure for education and health care were lacking to nonexistent. Some people lost their lives or were otherwise injured or harassed in the process because of all the racism . . . isn't that amazing? That wasn't that long ago . . .

Anyway, I never really connected the dots, but you know how Africa struggles so much with corruption? And so did the American south . . . if people are uneducated, democracy fails.

Education initiatives are what African countries need so badly . . .

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